A conversation got started around work this night and I feel this could be a good topic to bring up here, for the heck of it.
In a totally non-silly, serious credible and thoughtful fanboy way, who do you think is the BEST VILLAIN in comic book history? Not the most powerful, not the most badass, not the most homicidal or demented.
Simply, the best villainous character. I, myself, cannot settle between my two all-time favorites. Which I'll talk about later, once the conversation is underway.
Seriously, now. Let's debate. Best villain in comic book history.
GO.
Comments
12:55 Sun May 4th, 2008
If Jarvis was a baddie, you had to go with Ultimate Jarvis. He had some cool venom to spit. Ozymandias doesn't strike me as an incredible villain. He's okay, but I don't think he measures up to the likes of Victor, Harvey, Johann and the other Lexes of the comic world. Maybe because we haven't seen enough of what he can do?
14:42 Sun May 4th, 2008
But I thought Ozymandias was a good guy? Oh great, you jerks just spoiled the ending!
17:05 Sun May 4th, 2008
Sure, his plans aren't very grandiose, but for absolute murderous crazy evil I'd have to go with the Joker. (I've always found the really "world-ending" kinds of villains to be a bit impersonal, really.)
19:03 Sun May 4th, 2008
I'd agree that the Joker could be the one, but the problem is that his personality has been interpreted so many different ways that he's almost impotent. The Joker of the Dark Knight? Sure. The Joker of the 1960's, forget it. I'd say Ozy too, but his character isn't particularly villainous and this is such a brad field that I'm gonna stick to the question as specifically asked. Galactus comes to mind, but he's not really villainous either, he's just trying to get by. I'm gonna say Sathanas form John Byrn's Next Men. Guy's so evil he goes back in time to purposefully turn his own self into the twisted mutant he is. That seems pretty villainous to me. X
20:28 Sun May 4th, 2008
Doom was the first villain that came to mind, but that's mostly 'cause I love him - not 'cause he's a great villain. In fact, he's one of the silliest characters in the Marvel universe - super genius, battlesuit made ina cave, robots, ruler of Latveria, trained in the mystical arts by monks (?), able to transfer his mind to other bodies, and Reed Richards' college roommate. Hmph. Galactus was the next to come to mind. He IS a villain, in that good guys have to stop him (not all villains are evil). But really, he's just a doomsday device and villain rolled into one. He's mostly a one trick pony, so that kicks him out of the running. I love Braniac from the animated series' - he was awesome. Great story lines, merging with Luthor, the catalyst to reforming Darkseid. He wasn't as impressive in comics though. My pick for best villain: The original Green Goblin. He found out Spider-Man's identity and used it. He was villainous, powerful, intelligent, psychotic, and commited to his goals. That's all the marks of a great villain.
21:43 Sun May 4th, 2008
I've always been tortured between Dr. Doom and Magneto. Doom's obsession, yet overwhelming pride, is pure genius. When they guy has the FF cornered and at his mercy, yet he lets them go because the final battle would damage his irreplaceable art collection, that's quality villainy. That's a villain who isn't all about villainy; he also has (something of) a soul. And what about the villain who doesn't see himself as a villain by choice? I've always loved that about Magneto. Arguably the most powerful being on Earth, not only does he control magnetism and a plethora of related energetic phenomenon, he sees himself as either a savior, a homeless crusader or a penitent. It's part of why I liked, but didn't LOVE Ian McKeller in X-Men (first one): he doesn't portrait that peculiar bit. The 'I don't do this by choice, but because no one else will'. That, and like Doom, he can be reasoned with. Maybe you guys never read that, but once, on a deserted island, he inadverteldly wounded Kitty Pryde, and realizing she was just a kid, stopped fighting right then and there. He spoke a bit to her and Storm, and he left, just like that. Cool dude.
22:50 Sun May 4th, 2008
Cool mayve but not villianous. I like the Joker. Particularily as he is potrayed in the animated series from the nineties. I love the episode where someone giftwraps Batman for him and he gets pissed because that someone ruined all the fun, or the one where everybody thinks that Batman is dead and the Joker just goes into a depression. In a bizarre way Batman was like his best friend.
23:00 Sun May 4th, 2008
I'm also gonna cast a vote for The Joker, especially since I just came off reading The Killing Joke. The first reason he's the best villain is that for him all the cruelty and insanity is about having fun while he works. He wouldn't just kill someone for the sake of it, he's find a way to make it into a sadistic game. Secondly, his relationship with Batman. The two of them are so similar in many ways, but stand on completely opposite sides of good and evil. They complete each other in a way like no other hero and nemesis that I can think of. The Batman/Joker dynamic puts him far above any other villain.
23:08 Sun May 4th, 2008
Well, if you go that route, Lex Luthor should stand tall amongst the dichotomic nemesis crowd. He's a mortal man who's opposite is the most powerful being on the planet.
01:12 Mon May 5th, 2008
It takes a helluvalot of balls to walk toe to toe with Supes when you've got, well, nothing but a decent human brain! Too bad Supes is so damned principled, otherwise we could've closed the books on that rivalry eons ago. *squish*
01:47 Mon May 5th, 2008
And talk about making it look like an accident...that meteor just came out of nowhere - its too bad Superman was in china saving some orphans.
02:36 Mon May 5th, 2008
But see Lex is incompitant. He knows Supes weakness yet Superman is still among us. Where as Joker is psychotic, and one of the only reasons that Batman is still around is because it would ruin the game(there have been situations both in comic and the animated series where Joker had him and just walked away because he didn't "like the punchline". He is the only one the Joker enjoys playing the game with so the Joker keeps him around(like a cat toying with a mouse)and he's nuts. So there is a reason other than incompitance, unlike Lex, Magneto, or whoever else.
03:52 Mon May 5th, 2008
I have to go with someone not that evil at all--just a smart guy who found the perfect use for his powers. The Taskmaster. I mean, getting your powers from watching footage of other metahumans in action is a great power in and of itself, but deciding to go into the training henchmen business is pure genius. Fills a niche that nobody else thought to fill.
05:16 Mon May 5th, 2008
It's like being the ACME store manager for supervillains, but no refunds :
15:12 Mon May 5th, 2008
AND one of my favorite characters to draw. Ever since seeing Taskmaster's entry in the original OHOTMU (he was right before Tatterdemalion) I loved his costume and powers. I dropped out of comics for a while, but I guess he's had a series and is now part of the Avengers Initiative somehow. So, is he still considered a villain?
16:41 Mon May 5th, 2008
Yeah, I love that costume! He had a revised one for his miniseries which I wasn't that crazy about, but he's recently gone back to the old look. And yes, he's currently one of the official trainers for the Initiative, which makes him more of a reformed villain than a bad guy. I'd love to take a crack at writing him some day.
17:37 Mon May 5th, 2008
I cast my vote for Darkseid. Despot, wielder of the Omega Beams, seeker for the Anti-Life Equation. Such a versatile villain, you can use him as a boogy-man in controlling things in the shadows, but he has enough character meat to carry a story line all on his own. Plus he is scary-looking. Just ask my two-year-old.
21:36 Mon May 5th, 2008
Ooo - Darkseid. Good call. He's irredeemably evil. Reminds me of Lord Maim. I think my favorite character of all Marveldom is Doctor Doom - but I don't really think of him as a villain. He's just awesome. I think the best villain is Red Skull. He's like Doctor Doom, but without any redeeming qualities at all - plus, he's a nazi.
22:42 Mon May 5th, 2008
True- Red Skull is bad. I love it when he wears the green jumper with the swastika. It's a good thing he never got a hold of that Cosmic Cube. Or did he..?
19:47 Wed May 7th, 2008
New Darkseid design http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20198166,00.html look a like a poop
20:44 Wed May 7th, 2008
All they added was the Omega symbol. Its not that bad from a design perspective. Its also just a bunch of rough sketching - I'm sure the finished product will look significantly better. If not, well, then they suck.
20:59 Wed May 7th, 2008
I can get behind the Omega symbol, in theory, but I don't understand the need for redesign for it's own sake. Plus, having his whole lower jaw covered seems awkward. I like the idea of him in constant pain, it adds some real pathos.
21:19 Wed May 7th, 2008
Darkseid doesn't need a symbol - he's just evil - he hates everything - he is his own symbol. It's like Darth Vader putting a skull on his chest - STOOPID
21:52 Wed May 7th, 2008
Agreed that the symbol is a bit unnecessary, but it adds a tiny bit of color to his outfit. It makes him more dynamic as you now have a symbol that can be shown in different perspectives to add a sense of motion or create a wider frontal pose for an even more intimidating presence.
22:20 Wed May 7th, 2008
I liked his plain outfit - it said everything you needed to know about the character - It's like, now he's 'omega guy' instead of an icon of evil unto himself. If you asked darkseid what he thought the ultimate symbol of 'the end' was, he wouldn't say 'omega' he would say 'me'. I can see his armies having an omega banner, but the guy himself should be unadorned - unless there's some practical reason for adornment. I like the idea that he's suffering from some sort of rockifying malady, and his uniform requires some gizmos - but I think it's beneath him to consider any symbol worth wearing unless he created it himself.
22:51 Wed May 7th, 2008
Again, its nothing to do with the character (what HE'D think) - only artistic dynamics. And again, I agree with you - I say leave well enough alone. Darkseid did fine for this long without an Omega symbol, but from an artist's perspective, a symbol makes the character more interesting.
23:38 Wed May 7th, 2008
If they want to add colour, they could give him an 'omega tube' or an 'anti-respirator' or something - even a cane... 'boom stick'...?
00:41 Thu May 8th, 2008
Your missing the point of a symbol or lines on a cotume. If I draw Darkseid with a big honking OMEGA on his chest at a 3/4 angle,the symbol gains perspective which adds to the dynamic use of color (light and shade) in a panel. Maybe I'm thinking too far into this, but I feel that's what they're going for. The old outfit is very dark and the character could get lost against a dark background. While he's intimidating in appearance because of his size and the crusty face look, the symbol adds a simple highlight. OK - back on topic but related to this Darkseid discussion: Who has the most evil LOOK? I would definitely say Darkseid is way up there, but here's where Doom really shines. The sombination of hooded cape and armor makes him look badass, ornery, and calculating. More formidable that just armor or just cloak. I also LOVE Ultron.
00:57 Thu May 8th, 2008
For look? I'm gonna say Sathanas again. http://www.serienett.no/forsider/origins/5/bild2.jpg
02:24 Thu May 8th, 2008
Ultron is pretty kewl - not sure I really got the whole 'he looks like a metal naked Janet' thing Venom is a great villain too - say what you want about McFarlaine
03:51 Thu May 8th, 2008
Yeah, but M.O.D.O.K. was taken out by Squirrel Girl (Where did I put that issue?). Awesome villian, but if you're taken out by someone called Squirrel Girl, I don't know...
10:30 Fri May 9th, 2008
Best look for a villain? I have to admit that Doom is pretty pimp, but I have a soft spot for Dark Phoenix. There's something about the most primeval force of destruction in the universe being dressed in red and gold that just gives off that classy-in-chaos vibe. Otherwise, the tailor in me can admire the Red Skull's tailored outfits and interior robes...
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Tenzil Kem
09:22 Sun May 4th, 2008
I'm stuck between Alfred and Jarvis (now there's an image!). Seriously, though, there have been some good ones including Doctor Doom, the Joker and Magneto. But I'd have to say my vote for best villainous character would have to go to Ozymandias.